World Cup Play-Offs (Europe) Draw

[Nosferatu]

- 2 days later....

http://www.marca.com/2009/08/28/futbol/liga_campeones/1251460591.html

A week later....

http://www.marca.com/2009/09/01/futbol/liga_campeones/1251822796.html

3 weeks after the game

http://www.marca.com/2009/09/14/futbol/liga_campeones/1252956555.html

I stand corrected if they made the front page. I wouldn't have thought any of it would. I could kind of understand it being there the day after the match. But I am surprising the Irish one is making the headlines the way it has outside of Ireland.

[zaphod]

- Stand corrected then, FIFA considering retroactive punishment for diving did in fact make headline news, weeks after the game.  And what came out of that?  Yeah, ****all

Adam T (3d post) has a valid point

http://www.football365.com/mailbox/story/0,17033,8744_5707074,00.html

FFS, give it a rest.

[Nerik]

Because it wasn't down to cheating. No one placed the beach ball there on purpose with the intention of a player hitting it. And I doubt the player went to hit it.

I rarely blame the ref, and notice I don't here either, because there is always that human error involved. It's just that there is no integrity among players. And with so much riding on particular games, there is too much being lost on bad decisions that really shouldn't happen because of the technology that is out there. Technology that is used in other sports.

I don't want to single out Henry in this. But you could probably take any Liverpool player and put them in a position where you'll know they'll dive. And they will because it could be the difference between winning and losing. And that sends out the wrong message completely about the game.

No one minds a team being beaten honestly. What really annoys people is being beaten unfairly. And let's be honest here, does anyone think that you will always get the right decision at Old Trafford? And that also stands for teams coming to Anfield. We could debate whether it's the same amount of questionable decisions but really it shouldn't be an issue. Technology should stop that and we should believe that the best side wins or at least the side that wins, wins fairly.

The end result is still the same. The ref not catching the cheat or not noticing that the goal was against the rules still screwed a team in the end. Of course cheating is disgusting but there is a lot of evidence of it each week, hence the need to act on it in a consistent and systematic way i.e. video evidence.

[shass]

if tony drago came on in the last minute, and scored the winner for malta and used his hand, you'd be all for it.

all joking aside, it's clear that football is behind other sports.

the wait in rugby for the tv ref adds to the excitment, and I think the 3 stikes rule in tennis is a good rule, and similar would work in football.

[Nerik]

Tony Drago would probably control it with his belly before missing from 2yrds out if it was such a crucial shot!

[Nosferatu]

I think you have to look at it differently depending on who's involved. If I were a French fan, I'd be disgusted we had won the way we had. And if Ireland had scored the same goal against France, I would nowhere be as pissed off. Simply because France had everything in their favour. They had something like 14 players in their squad playing CL football. We had 1. Incidentally that one is John O'Shea who was playing at RB and went off injured. He was replaced by McShane who should have really done better in his positioning with Henry.

In the course of league season, you have a large number of games both home and away for things to even out. For knock out games obviously one bad decision can swing the entire tie.

It's just soul destroying for a team like Ireland to come out and play like that. Play as good as they did when no one thought they could and go so close to getting a result that most people realistically thought was impossible (including them I am sure) and to lose out like that. It just destroys the whole integrity and nature of the game.

These are the sorts of things you want to see in football. You want to see great teams playing great football. And when they don't, you want to see the underdogs who really you would never expect to do well, beat them because they produce the goods.

[Nerik]

That things even themselves out is a myth. Definitely not necessarily over 1 season. I can understand how Irish fans feel but emotion is not part of the rules. It was either a good call or a bad call by the ref.

[Nosferatu]

I think they do even themselves out to a point but only in a league format over a large number of games. In knock out situations where winner takes all, they don't. It's just the circumstances of where the Irish came from i.e we all considered it to be over before that match. It would be like losing the CL final in 2005 by 4-3 to a last minute bad decision. You wouldn't mind if we were 3-0 down and out essentially. But to fight your way back into it and then at 3-3 get that decision, it would make it unbelievably hard to take.

It just does nothing for the game. You may as well take kids aside at coaching sessions and show them how to cheat. Because the likes of FIFA are essentially endorsing it. I know we all know that. But we really shouldn't accept it.

[Nerik]

Yes but if we accept cheating over the course of a season because it evens itself out, then we have no right to complain about it in a one-off game. I've seen many teams suffer in the same way Ireland did this week and it is never nice.

[Nosferatu]

We don't accept cheating. We accept bad decisions to a point. But we generally don't although some do, take the cheating. When Gerrard takes the odd dive, the majority of Liverpool supporters are pissed at him and would rightfully like to see him punished to stop him. But they are less pissed off if he gets a penalty he should not get because of a bad decision as its reasoned out that he has not got ones he should have.

[kopdude]

Interesting this. One of the radio stations football journalists came back and was talking about it. And he said it was time to get over this and no one else outside of Ireland is talking about this. But Graham Hunter said it was headline news across Europe and was making the front pages of certain papers. He named them. I think he mentioned La Marca. I did a search and it's there on the website.

Surprisingly, it was being discussed all over the sports news here in short segments yesterday.  I was driving up to a client meeting in LA yesterday with 2 co-workers and the Dan Patrick sports show sydicated from ESPN radio had at least 20 minutes of a discussion about this.   Another sports show also discussed it as well.  Of course, the reason is because of the importance of the game and what the result means to the team that wins.  But, there always has to be an idiot and one guy says, "I hate soccer, but I am going to watch the world cup just so I can root against France!"  I can understand rooting against France if you follow the game, but to do it in spite of the fact you hate the game?  Idiot.

[Nerik]

We don't accept cheating. We accept bad decisions to a point. But we generally don't although some do, take the cheating. When Gerrard takes the odd dive, the majority of Liverpool supporters are pissed at him and would rightfully like to see him punished to stop him. But they are less pissed off if he gets a penalty he should not get because of a bad decision as its reasoned out that he has not got ones he should have.

Cheating is bad as it goes contrary to what the sport should be about. However bad decisions that could be avoided through a higher standard or reffing and/or use of technology piss me off just as much. If I were an Ireland fan I'd be pissed on both counts.

[Nosferatu]

Nightmare scenario here is England meeting France in the final. The begrudging bastards that we are, will have to get behind England

The trouble is Nerik is that you could eliminate cheating very easy. The arguments against technology and video refs is that it disrupts the flow of the game and takes away some of the talking points. But no one wants the cheating. And there is an easy way around this, just cite the player. It's as easy as that. A player cheats. He is retrospectively banned. It doesn't change the result but it will stamp it out because no one will want to lose their players. And players won't do it if they know they will be caught and punished for it.

[Nerik]

Still one would still cheat to win the World Cup final or such a play-off though.

I think video evidence should be there to there and then rule on:

1. Whether a ball has crossed the line or not
2. Whether there was an off the ball incident the ref missed
3. Blatant cheating
4. Handballs

I would not use it for offsides, at least not initially but I think the fear of being caught there and then is always the greatest deterrent for cheaters.

You mention England and they too have been screwed on quite a few occasions in similar fashion so it would happen again to them!

[Nosferatu]

I don't think anyone would cheat. Not if the consequences and punishment was severe enough. Henry is getting the brunt of it now and has had his reputation destroyed. If they are talking about it in San Diego, it backs that up. But also the likes of Henry is not going to do it if he can't play in the World Cup. And Ronaldo is not going to do it if he can't play for Real for a long time as they certainly will not be overly impressed with him.

I am not disputing the rest. It would be best to involve all that. Just that this is the easiest solution and doesn't change the match day running of the games.