Chelsea - Arsenal

[kopdude]

Comment from an Arsenal fan on F365, which was in response to an article on Ballack's statement against Wenger's dig at only one team playing football:

Drunkenmaster

"Can people stop pretending that we are some masters of passing. Except for Fabregas, no one passed in a "beautiful" game kind of way. Pass to Song, 58 seconds deciding what to do, runs 20 yards to Diaby then does a 1 yard sideways pass to him, runs 20 yards up the pitch to Nasri, passes it two yards, fluffs the pass, Chelsea have the ball and are in our box in about 5 seconds.

Sorry but the "beautiful football" Arsenal USED to play, was successful and did win leagues and cups, the last 4 years has been a half assed attempt at the same football. There were maybe 2 or even 3 moves yesterday that would be considering great passing moves from us, the Arsenal that used to win things, would make 50 such moves a game and score several of them, they'd create 20 shots on target and score 2-3 of them. Bolton, Stoke, even Derby can produce one/two good moves a game, sorry but current Arsenal football is NOTHING like the invincibles football, nothing like Barca and not particularly good. We aren't bad, we're not far away from getting it back and overall we're certainly better to watch than many many teams in the league, but lets not pretend we play the same quality of football as several years ago."

[Nerik]

I think even Ferguson can be more gracious in defeat than Wenger at times. He should stop talking as if they are the only football purists on earth and their fans should stop shouting "hoof" every time a long ball is played. Ballack is right, football is about finding a way to win ultimately. If you can win and play great football then kudos to you. Wenger, to his credit, managed to do that in 98,02 and 04 with the team getting better each time. Sadly for him, and for various reasons, it has not worked since and all this youth talk, beautiful football talk, having a go at other teams and players is just hiding the issue.

[Negative]

Ferguson usually is pretty "gracious" about defeats, because he lashes out on refereeing at the same time he admits his team's poor performance.

[Nosferatu]

It's a tough one. Football is ultimately about winning. But the better you are at winning, the more you get credit. Whatever about Arsenal and their ability to win, you know they are going to go about it in a positive way. And that always draws appreciation and credit. Whereas being workman about it rarely does. And that goes for most sports. People always like to see natural ability put shine through in it's best possible way.

Put it this way. The previous Arsenal teams may be being knocked here. But we are still talking about them. We're not talking about the Utd side that won the last 3 titles and you rarely talk about the Chelsea side that won two. I think people get bored with efficiency without flare. It's Chelsea's down fall.

[Nerik]

Ferguson usually is pretty "gracious" about defeats, because he lashes out on refereeing at the same time he admits his team's poor performance.

He does at times but he often talks bollocks, like when he said Utd were the better team when we beat you 4-1 last year.

[Nerik]

It's a tough one. Football is ultimately about winning. But the better you are at winning, the more you get credit. Whatever about Arsenal and their ability to win, you know they are going to go about it in a positive way. And that always draws appreciation and credit. Whereas being workman about it rarely does. And that goes for most sports. People always like to see natural ability put shine through in it's best possible way.

Put it this way. The previous Arsenal teams may be being knocked here. But we are still talking about them. We're not talking about the Utd side that won the last 3 titles and you rarely talk about the Chelsea side that won two. I think people get bored with efficiency without flare. It's Chelsea's down fall.

I know quite a few Arsenal fans who are bored with the pretty football resulting in nothing too.

[kopdude]

In the Evan's era we played football that was often lauded as the best in the premier league, but for what?  Nothing in the end because we did not have the balance right.  Same with Wenger's team now.  Until the fool realizes that he needs to spend some cash and buy some experience to integrate into the team, he won't get anywhere with this current lot.

[Nosferatu]

I don't think you're comparing like with like there. Under Evan's era we did play some good football. But we never had it right at the back. And the reason you're not comparing like with like is that Evan's never achieved a title or a major trophy playing the way he did. Wenger has. That's why people are being careful in their criticism as up until 2 games ago, Arsenal were in a good spot and the transfer window was still open.

The big question really is what kind of money does he have available to him? It's alright calling him a fool if you know for sure. But I don't think you do because I am not sure anyone outside the club really knows. He doesn't say much about it which is fair enough but never really seems to have cash. Yet the board say he does.

The other question is what price is success worth? The figures coming from the club seem to be pretty good considering the stadium debt they have. If they were to follow our approach for example, that would be very different. They wouldn't be generating the £20-30m they seem to do from profits in sales and then would be spending an extra £20m. So that's a £40-50m hole there. And that could bring in the new owners that don't have a background in the club which is the case now.

[Nerik]

Yes Nos he has a proven track record and will always be respected for that. However even the best managers get it wrong or go into decline. For some reason or other (I think it is a combination of reasons) it seems that bar an incredible run in the CL he would have gone 6yrs without one of the two major trophies, 5yrs without any of note.

[Nosferatu]

It's all down to signings. The best managers make the key signings and you talk about them. The ones that don't, the talk is more about who they didn't sign. It's different with clubs who spend huge amounts like Real, Barca, Chelsea in the past and City now. Because they signed so many quality players, the manager role is less about who they sign but more about building a team from the players they have. And in any case, it's open to debate how much power they have in signing of the players.

Wenger has not got those players in. Maybe he has been unlucky with injuries in that we haven't truly seen how good players like Van Persie and Walcott could be if they had a full season with no injuries. Add to that some of the others like Rosicky and the guy from Marseille I can't think of his name. But none of them seem quite as good as the signings made in the past.

[Nerik]

Van Persie is fit is as good as any Wenger signing IMO. Walcott is still 20. It was a lot of money on a 16yr old and realistically people expected too much too soon from him. Rosicky and Nasri are good players but I see no Pires, Vieira-like signings there.

[Robser]

Walcott is ******* terrible.

[kopdude]

Isn't he just coming back from injury though?

[kopdude]

Nos, of course the club (Arsenal) have money to spend in transfers.  Why else would the board say they have the money?  Just for a laugh?   Wenger is a ******* fool for not taking advantage and using some money to buy good players.  He's always had a decent eye for a player.  As long as he is stubborn, they'll never get anywhere with this current team.  They are simply not good enough bar a few of them.

[zaphod]

Isn't he just coming back from injury though?

- 4th start this season against Chelsea