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Author Topic: 4th in the league run in  (Read 6213 times)
lfc.07.au
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« on: 23-02-2010, 11:07:28 »

I vote we start up a thread tracking the run in for 4th along with city, villa and spurs. Similar to last seasons title run where we had games of chelsea, utd and ourselves going into the second half of the season. Karl did a mighty fine job running it, posting table and fixtures lists up which was great for analysis and understanding the over all picture. Im rubbish with posting images so if anyone else out there would like to post them up we will all love you lots.

For now;

City has Chelsea on 27/2
Spurs have Everton on 28/2
We have Blackburn on 28/2
Villa's next game in the league is the 6/3 where they have sunderland. Same week we have wigan, spurs and city play each other

COME ON YOU RED MEN
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shass
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« Reply #1 on: 23-02-2010, 11:26:00 »

just mentioned it on another thread, i think it'll go down to the last day.
big nerves, i remember losing out to chelsea for the last CL place - (might have been 3rd place) on the last day.
gutting.
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Nerik
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« Reply #2 on: 23-02-2010, 12:21:22 »

Dunno whether it will go down to the last day. If we get a good run going we can have it sewn up earlier I'd say as I can see all the others hitting sticky patches. I still think it is down to us and it is good that we have Torres, Yossi etc. returning now.
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shass
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« Reply #3 on: 23-02-2010, 12:25:06 »

i just think because its a 4 horse race that it'll be difficult to get away from them all. i think spurs and villa will drop off, but citeh will be hard to shake.
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shass
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« Reply #4 on: 23-02-2010, 13:45:42 »

guardian.............
Michael Dawson and shass expect race for fourth to go down to final day

Tottenham's stand-in captain, Michael Dawson, has predicted the struggle for fourth place will go down to the final afternoon of the season, resurrecting thoughts of food poisoning and dodgy lasagne.

Dawson is one of three members of the present Tottenham squad who were around to endure the agonising final day of the 2005-06 season under Martin Jol. Although the team hotel in London's Docklands was cleared of any wrongdoing in preparing the pre-match lasagne, 10 squad members were affected by gastroenteritis and Spurs' defeat at Upton Park allowed Arsenal to take the fourth and final Champions League spot.

"It would be fantastic if we could do it this time," said Dawson, who took over the captaincy at Wigan on Sunday after Ledley King's withdrawal with injury. "Was it really four years ago that we lost on the final day at West Ham? That was devastating. We want to be involved against the best in the world and the Champions League is where they are playing. To do it now would be a fantastic achievement.

"It will go down to the last day because there are so many teams in there. There is one point separating the four of us, and we are all in with a shout. We hope people do keep talking about it being between Manchester City and Liverpool – we will just keep going about our job like we know we can. We certainly did that against Wigan and that is all we are bothered about."

Tottenham's run-in has eerie echoes of 2006. Then as now three of their final five fixtures pitted them against Manchester United, Arsenal and Bolton and they finish with an away game at a team who play in claret and blue. This time it is Burnley.

Of the four sides competing for fourth place, Tottenham and Manchester City have a notably harder run-in than either Liverpool or Aston Villa. They have not beaten Arsenal in the Premier League in 11 years and have not won at Old Trafford since 1989. In between those two fixtures, they take on Chelsea at White Hart Lane. Nevertheless, Sunday's 3-0 victory on a dreadful, churned-up surface at Wigan demonstrated the kind of resolve Redknapp has instilled into a Tottenham side whose reputation for being weak away from home, especially in the north, has been hard to shake off despite wins at Hull, Blackburn and Wigan and draws at Everton and Bolton. The two goals scored by Roman Pavlyuchenko on Sunday are proof that if the striker cannot get his hoped-for move to Lokomotiv Moscow before the Russian transfer window closes next month, he may still have a role to play at White Hart Lane.

"Belief has never been a problem for this team," said Dawson. "We had one disappointing result at Wolves, that is all and that is gone now. Whatever the state of the pitch at Wigan, there could be no excuses for us. We went out and played fantastically. I hadn't noticed that Pav has been down and, when he scored, all the lads were chuffed for him. The fans certainly like him, judging from the way they were singing his name."

 
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Robser
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« Reply #5 on: 23-02-2010, 13:59:58 »

Dunno whether it will go down to the last day. If we get a good run going we can have it sewn up earlier I'd say as I can see all the others hitting sticky patches. I still think it is down to us and it is good that we have Torres, Yossi etc. returning now.

i agree. Problem is we look nothing like a team capable of getting into a good run! I know we've decent form according to the form guide ight now but our actual form is shite!
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« Reply #6 on: 23-02-2010, 14:26:54 »

We are playing badly in some games and OK in some. Nothing exciting at all. Only decent thing is that we are hard to beat and that we are now facing some teams we should be really beating in the next few games.
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grandrake
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« Reply #7 on: 23-02-2010, 14:30:01 »

Of the four teams contesting now, I think on paper, Villa has the easiest fixture list, followed by us. They have to host Everton and play away to City and Chelsea, while we visit Old Trafford and host Chelsea. Of course, the relegation-strugglers could be tricky, but in terms of the top 8, that's about it.

Citeh has a horrendous run-in with games against their city rivals, Villa, Chelsea, Arsenal and Spurs (i.e. everyone bar the Merseysiders!) while the Spurs have to travel to Citeh and Old Trafford, as well as host Arsenal, Chelsea and Everton.

The fixtures are in our favour except for Villa's case. I hope we really don't screw up, but as Robser said, we're playing like a team which doesn't look capable of getting a good run in place so we might just screw it up big time.
  
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shass
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« Reply #8 on: 23-02-2010, 14:37:48 »

I think Fernando Torres will be the difference. We are a different team with him in it.
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Rob Jones
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« Reply #9 on: 23-02-2010, 15:25:00 »

I don't think we can rule any of them (Villa, City and Spurs) out of it.  We have not looked better than any of them in general this season.  Their squads are probably as good as ours (in City's case they are probably better).  

Villa have looked solid throughout the season.  They have been usually good at the back and they have usually built their wins on the base of that solid defence.  Spurs perhaps are the best team going forward (of the lot).  The last time I saw the stats and they were ahead of the rest in terms of goals, shots on goal, shots off target etc.  From what I saw, there is a bit more fluency in their attacking as well.  City have been blowing hot and cold.  They have improved defensively under Mancini though and they have enough talents up front to worry anyone.  Their main problem is their fixtures which on paper seem tougher than the rest.  

We were really very poor early on.  It's not the defeat at Arsenal and the draw at City that put us in the position we are.  It is the poor form showed during the 1st half of the season.  The positive thing is that we are getting better.  Earlier on, we were looking out of sorts defensively and our general play was very poor.  We have looked more solid lately.  And you can see the improvement in our game against City and Arsenal when compared to that awful performance away against Wolves when we could not string 2 passes together.  

What we lack is cutting edge up front and hopefeully Torres and Yossi can provide that.  The main problem is that we should start winning on the road.  We have a poor record away from home and we need to start scoring there.  Right now, Spurs, Villa and City are in a better position than us.  But if we improve on the aspects mentioned above, then we can clinch that 4th place.  The margin of error is very narrow now though because unfortunately we have left ourselves with a mountain to climb.
« Last Edit: 23-02-2010, 15:54:10 by Rob Jones » Logged
lfc.07.au
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« Reply #10 on: 24-02-2010, 01:05:16 »

Not a bad read this;

http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/opinion/columnists/david-maddock/Why-Liverpool-s-dour-draw-at-Manchester-City-was-exactly-what-Rafa-Benitez-planned-and-why-the-Reds-will-definitely-get-fourth-spot-The-David-Maddock-Column-article332763.html

Why Liverpool's dour draw at City was exactly what Rafa planned, and why the Reds will definitely get fourth spot

I have been amused by the reaction to Liverpool’s performance at Manchester City, and I’m moved to ask one question. Really, honestly, what did you expect?

Yes, like live Eastenders it was excruciating to watch. Yes it was more boring than Belgium.  But look at their run-in, and compare it to that of the rest of the sides competing for fourth place, and then tell me what Rafael Benitez’s side had to do above all else at Eastlands on Sunday. Yep, that’s right. Avoid defeat.

It would have been nice for them, I’m sure, to have avoided defeat playing some stylish, attacking, vibrant, open football. But you know what, that’s not usually recognised as the traditional method of avoiding defeat.

Yet people, many, many people, seem to be operating under the misplaced idea that the performance was the most important thing, indeed, that it was the only thing.


In modern society we seem less and less able to see beyond the instant moment, the instant gratification, and nowhere is that more prevalent than in football, and the burgeoning industry of chatter that surrounds it.

Every single performance, every single result, seems to be analysed in isolation, and the reaction consequently ignores the picture altogether, never mind a bigger one. Stop for a second though, and consider what represents the bigger picture for Liverpool.

Financially, they need to finish in the top four. They need regular Champions’ League income for their current plans to be viable in the long term. And professionally, the future of the manager and many of the players depends on a top four finish.

So quite a bit at stake then. Now let’s look back on the season so far. Disappointing doesn’t even get near to describing it. Liverpool started the campaign trying to play expansively, and it rather backfired on them, to the extent that they found themselves out of just about every competition bar the year seven egg and spoon. And they weren’t favourites for that.

So Benitez reverted to what he knows best, by going back to basics and tightening up a defence that had leaked more alarmingly than a bullied Downing Street staffer. And it worked. It wasn’t pretty, but it worked.

Until the defeat at Arsenal last week, they had strung together a seven-match unbeaten run that had put them firmly back into contention for the fourth place that had seemed beyond them at Christmas, thanks to an uncompromising, often ugly approach.

They also knew that defeat at City would leave them four points behind their rivals having played a game more, so potentially seven points behind with 11 matches remaining. A draw, on the other hand, would allow them to remain just a single point adrift.

Of those 11 remaining matches, nine are against teams in the bottom half of the table, and they also face Birmingham and Fulham, who currently occupy ninth and 10th places. Of the top eight, they play only Manchester United away and Chelsea at home (and believe me, they'll defend for their lives in those games to achieve draws).

City on the other hand, must still play five of the top eight, as must Spurs, and Villa must play four of them. None of the other three sides chasing fourth place will now face Liverpool, meaning that the City game was the last “six pointer”  - the last opportunity to put daylight between themselves and the Anfield team.

So OF COURSE Liverpool were going to play for a draw because it was a result that clearly suits them more than it did City, and of course they were going to play defensively to achieve that, because that’s been their approach over the past two months.

That is not to defend that practice or Liverpool’s season, because if they hadn’t been so rubbish up to Christmas then they wouldn’t be in this position where they require such dour, unappetising fare.

But let’s not get shocked about a defensively display, or sanctimonious either, because under the circumstances what else were they going to do? And they’ll keep doing it until the end of the season now too.

If they can keep clean sheets against sides in the bottom half of the table, then there’s a pretty good chance they’ll win those games, given that they will have the match-winning instinct of the returning Fernando Torres to call upon.

It’s a depressing prospect, sure, but given that fact, I’ll stand by my prediction that Liverpool could yet be closer to third place than fifth, given their league programme from now on. It’s just a shame they didn’t play better in the first half of the season, because given that run-in, if they were remotely close to the top now, they’d have a good chance of winning the Premier League.

I’m sure all that will be considered by the board come the end of the season, but for now, the bigger picture demands a top four place…and at any price, even if that price is football as we prefer it.
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Rob Jones
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« Reply #11 on: 24-02-2010, 07:47:44 »

It was what I was pointing out to.  A draw there was a decent result.  A defeat would have put us in an extremely difficult position.  There was more to lose than to gain from this fixture.  I think Rafa was right to play it safe for this one.  It is one difficult fixture out of the way as well.  It is not this result that has hurt us.  The poor performances before have put us into this situation.  I was in fact glad to see us improving defensively lately.  It was closer to the European performances away from home where we were tactically well organised and where we were usually in control.  We aren't going to get anywhere by being fragile at the back.  A sound defence is the best thing to build on now.  What I mean is that it is better that we are well-organised tactically rather leaving those enormous spaces for the opponents (as it was during the 1st half of the season).  It's good that we are getting back near to the level of the years before.

But yes, I agree that there should be some improvements up front.  I would like to see Rafa taking more risks away from home against the weaker teams. I can agree that we go to City and Arsenal with a well-organised and cautious side.  But we must take more attacking initiatives against the weaker teams away from home.  Hopefully, the return of Torres and Yossi will improve us in front as well.
« Last Edit: 24-02-2010, 07:51:43 by Rob Jones » Logged
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« Reply #12 on: 24-02-2010, 07:56:09 »

I'd laugh my tits off it City came 7th, which could certainly happen. They have a horrid run in, United Arsenal Villa then west ham last 4 games OOOO. They could be out of it before the last game. If we're still in touch after the United game on the 21st of march, we'll only have 1 game left where you could say, ok we might lose this one. 6 of our last 7 are easily winnable. If we can do that I think 4th's ours.
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Robser
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« Reply #13 on: 24-02-2010, 09:19:56 »

Looking at our next 4 games. 3 points against Blackburn, I think we'll only get 1 at Wigan, 3 against Pompy and 1 at OT.

Thats 8 points

City have 0 at chelsea, 3 at home to spurs 1 at Sunderland 0 at Fulham

Thats 4 points

Villa - 3 at home to sunderland, 1 away at stoke, 3 away at wigan and 3 at home to wolves

Thats 10 points

Spurs - 3 at home to everton, 0 at city, 3 at home to Blackburn and possibly 1 at Stoke

Thats 6, maybe 7

That leaves the league like this:

Villa 55 pts
Us 53
Spurs 53
City 50

Then I think we look and see what from there. No point looking further and even looking as far as I have is probably too difficult
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« Reply #14 on: 24-02-2010, 09:46:58 »

Agreed with ROb.. no point looking far into the future. I'm just glad that Torres, Benayoun and GJohnson is almost fit to play (GJ Case).. Torres and Benayoun to be slowly introduced to the game to gain match fitness..
What we can do is try to get as many point as possible and hope that the other result goes our way..

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